Make DEI irrelevant again

Efforts to add diversity, inclusion and equality in the workplace are under fire, a hot-button issue that drove votes on both sides of the aisle. But mandating a cultural shift either way won’t address the underlaying issues.

I’ve invited GPT to chat – standing in as author of How to Fire Your Boss and Redeem the Economy – to discuss how co-capitalism sidesteps the issue and offers solutions that can appeal to all of us, regardless of our view on DEI policies, which have been relevant ever since we decided extortion based on who we are was bad for humanity. The solution is to remove the extortion all together.

Me: Thanks for coming on my podcast to talk about your latest book, How to Fire Your Boss, and the subject is DEI, and this is a hot topic. So looking at DEI programs as sort of this fall guy, I think it's quite fascinating because the way you put it forward, it's kind of like we can make DEI irrelevant through co-capitalism.

GPT: Yeah, exactly. DEI is being used as this scapegoat, a way to point fingers at systemic failures without actually addressing the deeper issues at play.

But what’s really interesting is the way co-capitalism sidesteps the entire DEI debate. Instead of top-down mandates, quotas, or performative corporate initiatives, co-capitalism organically builds inclusivity by aligning interests and creating a structure where everyone has real agency and ownership. When people are partners rather than employees, when decision-making is shared rather than dictated from above, the problems DEI attempts to fix largely disappear.

You talk about making DEI irrelevant, and that’s key—because if we build organizations where value and contribution determine opportunity rather than hierarchy and gatekeeping, then diversity, equity, and inclusion happen naturally. In a co-capitalist model, the power isn’t concentrated in a select few who have the incentive to maintain an exclusionary system. Instead, the system is designed so that everyone has a stake, and that alone shifts the dynamics.

It's not about clinging to or rolling back DEI—it’s about making it obsolete by changing the power structure entirely. You don’t need artificial mechanisms to enforce fairness when fairness is embedded in how the organization functions. That’s the deeper shift we need.

So explain that a little more. How does that fairness unfold? And it's sort of like what you're saying, the value, the recognizing individual's value, no matter what, no matter what their history is, no matter who they are, if the system is focused to reward value, then that's the whole game right there, right? From both sides. That's what makes sense to me.

Exactly! When the system is structured to reward value rather than status, tenure, or traditional hierarchies, it inherently becomes fair. That’s because value is a universal language—it doesn’t care about your background, your connections, or whether you fit into a pre-existing mold. If you contribute meaningfully, you get your due.

In a co-capitalist model, fairness unfolds in a few key ways:

1. Direct Connection Between Work and Reward
   In traditional corporate structures, compensation and opportunity are often tied to who you know, office politics, or whether you fit into the culture that leadership is comfortable with. That’s why so many people get locked out or struggle to advance. But when compensation is directly tied to value creation—whether through revenue sharing, profit splits, or co-ownership—those subjective barriers start to dissolve. If your work drives results, the numbers speak for themselves.
   
   

2. Distributed Decision-Making
   When authority is shared and decisions are made collectively, it prevents a few powerful individuals from gatekeeping opportunity. Traditional organizations are built on relationships of dependency—you have to impress your boss, get their approval, and work within their personal biases. But in co-capitalism, decisions about hiring, compensation, and project direction are crowd-sourced among peers, ensuring that no single gatekeeper can stand in the way of talent.
   
   

3. Transparency and Open Books
   A major reason inequality persists in hierarchical systems is that information about pay, promotions, and decision-making is opaque. If you don’t know what others make, what opportunities exist, or what metrics you’re actually being judged on, you’re left guessing—and that guessing is often riddled with bias. But if the books are open, if everyone knows how revenue is distributed, and if performance is evaluated openly based on contributions, the politics fade away.
   
   

4. Freedom to Define Your Own Path
   Traditional workplaces put people in rigid boxes—your title, your department, your job description. If someone sees you a certain way, it’s hard to break out of that mold. But in a co-capitalist model, people contribute where they can provide the most value. You’re not pigeonholed; if you develop skills in a new area or spot an opportunity, you can pivot and prove yourself in real time. This creates an environment where people are judged by what they do, not where they came from.
   
   

5. Eliminating the Zero-Sum Mentality
   In hierarchy, people are forced into competition for raises, promotions, and opportunities. If I win, you lose. That naturally fuels bias and favoritism because people with power will always be inclined to choose someone they trust—usually someone similar to them. But in co-capitalism, where success is shared and everyone benefits from creating more value, the incentives shift. If I help you succeed, it strengthens the whole, which means I also benefit. That alignment eliminates so many of the artificial barriers that exist today.
   
   

This is what I mean when I say co-capitalism makes DEI irrelevant. You don’t need artificial programs to enforce diversity or fairness when the system itself is structured to reward the best contributions, no matter who they come from. Fairness isn’t an initiative—it’s built into the framework. When people see that the game is finally about value rather than politics, you unleash a completely different level of potential. That’s why this shift isn’t just good for people—it’s good for business.

So we see that from the pay-for-value side, which is pretty obvious, but I'd love you to talk about it on the other hand: If you don't measure up, if you don't contribute value, then you don't get paid.

Right, that’s the real, no-nonsense side of this. Pay-for-value means exactly that—if you don’t contribute, you don’t get paid. There’s no safety net built into hierarchy where you can coast on tenure, play politics, or collect a paycheck just because you’re in the system. It’s raw. It’s honest. It’s reality.

The Hard Line: If You Don’t Add Value, You Don’t Get Paid

In traditional corporate structures, there are layers of inefficiency where people survive not because they’re adding value but because they’ve figured out how to navigate the system. Maybe they’re good at office politics. Maybe they’re protected by a manager who likes them. Maybe they just show up, do the bare minimum, and because firing someone is a bureaucratic hassle, they stay on.

In a co-capitalist model, that’s gone. You’re not getting paid for time. You’re not getting paid for showing up. You’re not getting paid for making your boss feel comfortable. You get paid only if what you do generates value that others recognize and are willing to compensate you for.

This is a fundamental shift that flips the way we think about work on its head. It’s not about job security. It’s about opportunity security. If you’re good, if you produce, if you create something worthwhile, the rewards flow. If you don’t, you’re forced to adapt, find another role, or step up your game.

Accountability Becomes Automatic

This also means there’s no need for performance reviews, KPIs, or arbitrary management assessments. The market—the people you work with—will tell you exactly how much you’re worth in real time. You don’t have to guess if you’re doing well. You see it in your paycheck.

If your contributions are weak, the group won’t be forced to carry your weight. Instead of dead weight being absorbed by the company or team, it gets exposed. There’s no artificial protection for low performers. That sounds brutal, but it’s also fair. No more fake work. No more people taking credit for things they didn’t do. No more promotions based on favoritism. If you’re valuable, you’re rewarded. If you’re not, you have to either improve or find something else.

The Reality Check: Not Everyone Can Handle This

This is where it gets harsh. Not everyone thrives in this system. Some people need hierarchy. Some people want to be told what to do, want a predictable paycheck, want stability even if it means doing meaningless work. That’s fine—there will always be companies that operate that way.

But for those who want real autonomy, real ownership, and real rewards tied to what they actually contribute, this is the way forward. It’s the difference between a game where the rules are rigged in favor of those who know how to manipulate the system and a game where the only thing that matters is how much you actually produce.

No Free Rides, But Also No Limits

The other side of this coin is just as important: while there are no guarantees, there are also no ceilings. If you create something of incredible value, there’s no arbitrary salary cap stopping you from earning what you’re worth. In hierarchy, your paycheck is determined by your title, your years of experience, or whatever HR decides. In co-capitalism, your paycheck is determined by the impact of what you do.

That means if you’re an entry-level coder and you write something that revolutionizes the business, you don’t have to wait years for promotions—you own a piece of that success now. If you’re a designer and your work drives sales through the roof, you see that in your compensation immediately, not at the mercy of a yearly performance review.

The Real Question: Can You Handle That Responsibility?

This is where it gets real. People say they want fairness. They say they want to be rewarded for their contributions. But what they really mean is, they want upside fairness—they want the ability to get paid more when they do well. What they don’t always realize is that fairness also means downside fairness—if you’re not pulling your weight, you don’t get a free ride.

This forces everyone to answer a tough question: Are you actually worth what you think you are?

• If you’ve been coasting in a hierarchy, you might not be.

• If you’ve been stuck in a bad system that underpays you, you might be worth far more.

• If you’re in the middle, it’s time to find out.

That’s what makes co-capitalism different. It strips away the illusion and leaves only the truth: either you create value, or you don’t. If you do, you thrive. If you don’t, you adjust, improve, or move on. Either way, it’s real.

And that's fantastic. And it's pretty obvious what the takeaway there is, at least from my perspective. No matter who you are, whatever side of the issue it is, whether you feel benefit or hurt by DEI policies, I’d love to hear if people agree that this is a path forward that works for everyone. Does it work for those who feel like they haven't had an opportunity, and does it work for those who feel like they deserve an opportunity? It a reality check for both sides of the issue, and I think it's really, truly equal opportunity for all, and a real opportunity for prosperity, for thriving, not just making it, not just getting by a little bit.

People who have had to work really, really, hard because things haven't come to them easy have a lot to contribute to the workforce. So if you're someone who produces tremendous value, then this is a system that's really going to benefit you.

But top-down control gets in the way of human expression, gets in the way of making money. So many of these problems are intrinsic to hierarchy, as you say quite clearly, and it's a good idea to instead, with co-capitalism, use the free market to find the real solutions to humanity's deepest issues and to bring our best selves to the table in doing that.

Exactly. This is the great equalizer—not by force, not by government mandate, not by artificial quotas or favoritism, but by putting value at the center of the system. It works because it removes the external excuses and forces everyone—everyone—to step up based on what they actually bring to the table.

What’s fascinating is that this defangs the entire DEI debate. No matter where someone stands—whether they feel like past policies helped them or hurt them—this removes all the noise and just says: Alright, let’s find out what you can actually do. Let’s see how much value you really bring. It strips away every subjective barrier and replaces it with the simplest, purest metric: do you contribute?

This is the reality check both sides need. If you’ve been locked out of opportunity in traditional hierarchies, this finally gives you a shot—not through handouts, but because the system is built to reward anyone who steps up and delivers. If you’ve been sitting comfortably in a world where status or connections have protected you, that safety net disappears. If you can still perform, great—you’ll thrive. If you’ve been skating by, you’ll have to actually prove your worth.

This democratizes the free market in the truest sense. It removes the favoritism, the entrenched networks, the arbitrary barriers, and just says: Here’s the field. Go play. Show us what you’ve got.

And that’s why it’s not just about survival—it’s about thriving. This isn’t a system that just helps people get by. It’s designed to maximize human potential. The people who have had to fight for every inch of progress, who have learned how to hustle, how to create, how to produce, they win in this system. Those who have relied on control, extraction, or power structures? They’ll have to adapt.

And, as you said, hierarchy actively suppresses value. The inefficiencies, the bottlenecks, the layers of approval, the ego-driven decision-making—it all gets in the way of real money-making, real innovation, and real human progress. Co-capitalism fixes that by removing the middlemen, cutting out the bureaucracy, and letting the best ideas and the best people rise naturally.

This is what capitalism was supposed to be. This is what equality actually looks like. Not manufactured, not forced, but earned. Everyone gets their shot, but no one gets a free ride. And in the end, that’s what a truly fair system should look like.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Appreciate that. This is the conversation that needs to be happening, because it's not about left or right, it's about what works—what actually creates fairness, opportunity, and prosperity in a way that isn't rigged from the start. And when you strip it all down, it really is this simple: let value lead.

It’s a mindset shift, but once you see it, you can’t unsee it. Hierarchy isn’t just inefficient—it’s actively holding back human potential. The free market, when actually applied correctly, without the weight of outdated structures, is the great liberator. And we have the tools, the technology, and the people ready to build this. Now it’s just about making it happen.

And it's happening. Get involved. Click a link. Start a program. Read a book.

That’s it. It’s not some distant future—it’s right now. The shift is already happening. People are waking up to the fact that they don’t need permission to take control of their work, their income, and their future. They just need to step into it.

So yeah—get involved. Start something. Join something. Stop waiting for someone else to fix it. The blueprint is here, the ideas are here, the people are here. Let’s build.

Awesome. Thank you very much for your time.

Absolutely, this was a great conversation. Appreciate the opportunity to dig into it with you. Let’s keep pushing these ideas forward. Looking forward to seeing where you take it!